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On the Fine Art of Prognostojection...

  • Feb. 17th, 2009 at 11:26 AM
Annoyed Angel
Prognostojection is an art practiced by writers who should not be day traders*--the obsessive-compulsive ones--and can only be pursued once one knows more of the ins and outs of the writing world. This is the art of looking at the rejections of others and using that to guess where one's own submission stands in the process.

Some venues have a consistent flow of submission and rejection. For example, in the snail mail world, F&SF always makes a fast turn-around. In the e-mail submission world, Venues like Fantasy and Lone Star Stories are very good about getting stories turned around quickly. Other venues work in batches, elimination a lot of stories from their slush pile, and then not moving anything for a few weeks....or months. Other venues have no pattern at all to their rejections, a terrible source of frustration to prognostojectors.

So, where does one begin?

While one can use Ralan's (or the publication's own guidelines) to get the editor's estimate of the turn around time, there's nothing quite as good as real-time data for this. There are several sources of this kind of information, including Duotrope's What's New page, The Black Hole or the [info]ra_log. Forums can also supplement this info, as some editors actually post their progress on their forums. There are also writing group forums which post rejections and acceptances.

In my case, Duotrope turns out to be the main source, as it appears to have the most data coming in. It does seem to favor e-mail submission venues, while snail mail submissions often show up more readily on the Black Hole. So, say that I have a story out at Pear Noir! (I'm intentionally using a venue I don't know). I go to the What's New (in the last seven days) page and check the alphabetical list. I find this:

376. 2-day form rejection from Pear Noir!.
377. 9-day form rejection from Pear Noir!.
378. 13-day form rejection from Pear Noir!.
379. 13-day rejection from Pear Noir!.


Wow, that tells me that they're rejecting pretty quickly. If my story has been there 15 days....that might mean that it made the first cut (or it never got there). If my story has been there two days, then I can't be sure, so I can click on the name of the magazine, and Duotrope brings up the page for that specific publication, which gives me a lot more information.


Accuracy: We have received 121 reports within the past 12 months, not including pending responses or ignored reports. 6 responses are pending

There are still some other stories waiting as well, 6 of them. (Experienced practitioners are aware that this datum can be ruined by a few people forgetting to update their submission reports).


Days Reported 1 | 12 | 102 (min | avg | max)

Oh, so on average, it takes 12 days.


Most recent response reported was received on 15 Feb 2009.
Responses have been received for submissions sent as recently as 12 Feb 2009.


Wait a minute! They've responded to people who sent things as late as the 12th? I sent mine back on the 2nd! What does that mean? Are they holding it for consideration? Did I miss an e-mail? ::goes to check the spam filter::

The Black Hole and other venues can verify this data, and let you see when they're responding to writers. All in all, we can pull a lot of information out of these pages--just remember that every bit of bad data recorded skews the statistics.

Another use of this is getting a sense when huge clumps of rejections are coming. For example, if you submitted to an anthology, they will often do mass rejections. Rejections from a recent anthology filled the rejection logs in the last week, with many writers become more and more hopeful when their rejection didn't come...only to be crushed when a TOC came out without their names on it. (We don't know what Communication Fail happened there.)

On occasion, a magazine or journal does the same thing, dumping a wide time-span worth of rejections at once.

321. 35-day form rejection from Missouri Review.
322. 65-day form rejection from Missouri Review.
323. 69-day form rejection from Missouri Review.
324. 69-day personal rejection from Missouri Review.
325. 77-day form rejection from Missouri Review.
326. 80-day personal rejection from Missouri Review.
327. 81-day personal rejection from Missouri Review.
328. 131-day form rejection from Missouri Review.
329. 161-day form rejection from Missouri Review.
330. 240-day form rejection from Missouri Review


OK, this venue must read in spurts. At this point, though, the 240-day writer can console him or herself with the thought that they were held the longest (see 'Rejectomancy'), while the 35-day writer can say that at least the publication didn't hold onto their work forever before rejecting it. Something for everyone!

And if you have a 120-day story at that venue? Prognostojection suggests you're being held....or your rejection is on its way. Go check your spam filter.

As an art, this is one only practiced by the OCD among us. It does us no good whatsoever (like looking at the losses on our 401Ks right now), but we continue to do it because we just can't help ourselves....

So do you know any sites for collecting Prognostojection data? Please?

_________________________________
*Why not day traders? I learned this back when I was a Gifted and Talented Specialist. I ran the school's stock market competition, and therefore also got to play free. (Essentially, you were given 100,000 and three months.) Two of the three times I played, I won the state teacher's bracket. But I found that I quickly became compulsive about checking my stocks, often several times an hour. I was good at it, but it was eating up my world. So in the middle of the third season, I dropped out cold turkey and never played again. (That was the time I didn't win.)

Comments

( 20 comments — Leave a comment )
[info]vaughan_stanger wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 06:41 pm (UTC)
Gee, all my prognostojection habits summarised in one post! Have you bugged my laptop?

:-)

Great post!
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC)
We're horrible creatures of habit!
[info]displacedtexan wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 06:59 pm (UTC)

So, where does one begin?

I suppose one could begin by not prognostojecting in the first place. It seems a waste of energy.
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC)
:oP

Fence guy on his way.
[info]asakiyume wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 07:29 pm (UTC)
Fascinating! And you're right, something for everyone.
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 08:15 pm (UTC)
;o)
[info]tlmorganfield wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 07:39 pm (UTC)
Oh my gosh, this describes me to a T (or however that word is supposed to be spelled)!!!! Except that I take no consolation from waiting 240 days for a form rejection. No, my reaction is always "Time-wasting F***ers!" Then I make note to not submit to them again:-).

Whenever I submitted to Realms, I was glued to slushmaster's journal, constantly checking to see when he'd pick up the next batch of slush, and if he passed something of mine up to Shawna, then it was time to go trolling the previous sale posts, to try to figure out how long I was going to have to wait to hear back (and of course there's absolutely no pattern at all, but we prognosticators will argue to the ends of the world that there has to be one!). I'm definitely OCD. I check Duotrope at least four times daily, even if I'm not expecting a response any time soon. I just like looking at the pretty numbers:-)
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 08:16 pm (UTC)
I'm pleased to note that we're not the only ones! Four times a day? That's all?
[info]orogeny wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 07:41 pm (UTC)
I'm terrible. Always with the banging on Duotrope. The problem being, of course, that some stories are rejected fast even at long markets, so you can never really tell based on the "received as recently as..." datum.

I'm trying to train myself out of this habit, and stick with "Oh, why bother sending this to them? They'll hate it."
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 08:22 pm (UTC)
There are some markets who have bizarrely inconsistent return times. There are also some which have tiered returns, and you just have to know that's what's going on....

I would definietly like it if I knew the markets better, but I don't have the time. ;o)
[info]rob_haines wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 08:42 pm (UTC)
I'm getting my day-trading fix at the moment from my website stats on Google Analytics ;)

"Why have only three people visited since two hours ago? Oh god, was my latest post so awful that people knew to avoid it by proxy without even visiting the site?"

And so on. At least I guess it distracts from getting obsessive about my impending rejections!
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 17th, 2009 10:49 pm (UTC)
We're all insane....
[info]grayrose76 wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 12:21 am (UTC)
I go through the exact same process, though less now that I have less things out. I recently told my friend, also a writer, "A story of mine has been out for 152 days..." and she rudely interjected with "but who's counting, right?"

I am. I am counting! This is a usually quick market that always, always holds my stuff forever, but this time is the longest I've ever been held, and, and, and... I am just not patient enough to wait 150+ days, and, oh, well.

Seems my neuroses are really blooming today.
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 12:33 am (UTC)
No, that just shows how normal you are for a writer ;o)
[info]mallory_blog wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 12:44 am (UTC)
OMG I'm afflicted - and YOU had the name for it...

as I creep past the dates of others a part of me yells, "Go Turtle - Go Turtle"

[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 12:47 am (UTC)
Ah, the magic of being held....

I think that there's a level we reach aas writers where we start leaving Rejectomancy behind and turn to Prognstojection. What comes after that, I don't know.
[info]ken_schneyer wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 12:47 am (UTC)

You've got me pegged, J. This is exactly what I do. Except that I also sometimes get my friends to tell me their own acc/rej records, which I can then to my own personal data and perform (forgive me) longitudinal analysis.

So, for example, based on my own data and the data of a friend, I happen to know that if a response from Analog comes back in less than 45 days, it's probably a form rejection; whereas if it comes back in 50-75 days, it's probably a personal note from Stanley; whereas if it takes longer, it just might be a sale.

Then there's GUD, which publishes its own real-time accept-reject stats -- I love that. (*Waves to [info]kaolinfire*)

If you find any prognostojection sites, tell me ASAP!


...Day trading is a sucker's game. You can do better at the craps table, and a lot better at seven-card stud....
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 12:51 am (UTC)
I supplement my insights by going to Codex's rejection log, plus Beneath Ceaseless Skies and Paradox both have posts on their forum. ASIM is usually good, but for some reason the updating person there has fallen off the wagon.

Oh, well.....
[info]babarnett wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 01:30 am (UTC)
Like many others, this post has me pegged. Sites and forums with response times are my crack. Especially now, when a few markets have me prognostojectioning my little heart out.
[info]j_cheney wrote:
Feb. 18th, 2009 01:36 am (UTC)
::fingers crossed for you::
I know the feeling!
( 20 comments — Leave a comment )

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